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Thread: DoD destroying brass, Georgia Arms layoffs!!

  1. #1

    Unhappy DoD destroying brass, Georgia Arms layoffs!!

    Read an article about DoD no longer selling brass to Georgia Arms, an awesome resource for low cost reloads. Instead, the DoD will be destroying it's spent brass and selling to china for a lower cost than what re-loaders would pay for such cases. This practice is going to cause Georgia Arms to layoff 60-100 people.

    Can't find the article anymore...

    However found this related one about LC!
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2994470/posts

    Apparently, they are cutting back too. It's very strange to me. It is almost like their is little to no demand for ammo.

  2. #2
    This has been going on for awhile. Lot of articles talking about how screwed up the ammo shortage is and reasons why.

    Older article but still relevant.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...-so-expensive/

    http://www.ammoland.com/2013/03/mili...-brass-again/#

    http://gunssavelives.net/blog/is-the...troying-brass/

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ammo-expensiv/

    http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/04/02/ammo-shortage/

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...tion-shortage/

    As usual government interfering in the market fucks up things.
    Last edited by Porkchop Sandwiches; 07-24-2013 at 12:58 PM.

  3. #3
    thanks fro the links!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by HESH24 View Post
    thanks fro the links!
    You're welcome. Some good thoughts on what is going on. I never thought I'd see the day in which it was hard to get .22 LR ammo.

  5. #5
    Or primers... Its those little things you miss. it 's almost like they know we all have "cars" + "gas" but can't find the "keys"

  6. #6

  7. #7
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    I found this law on one of the comments on the ammo deals part of this website. It was the first time I had known about this law. I think it is a great law and fully support it but it appears it is being violated routinely these days.

    I live in Lawton, OK, home of one of the largest Army artillery posts in the world. Occasionally I partner up with one of my service buddies and go shooting at the range on post. Several months ago while shooting I met a serviceman who had been involved with the posts disposal of spent brass for the past decade. He said that shortly after our current Czar Ahmed Obummer Bin Lyin came into office the post changed its process. According to him in the past they either auctioned or sold outright the spent brass to ammo remanufacturers all across the US. Now it is appearently crushed and sent to the smelter for scrap brass. I have not been able to verify this with anyone else on post who knows anything (itis a huge post and I only have a handful of Army buddies) but I didn't see any reason to call BS on this. He seems to know what he was talking about. He talked about it in great detail like someone who had been clearly involved with this dept of the post. I have met great liars before though who could BS about anything they had no knowledge about. This certainly lines up with the OP opened with above and other rumors i have heard since I met that fellow.

    Just curious if there are any other servicemen viewing this post who may be familiar with this topic. I would like to hear it from more sources. If this is truly the case I have direct access to my US Congrssman in my district and he is very responsive to his constituents. I would like to take this issue up with him. This post is in his district and if the Army is violating the law then someone needs to hold them accountable.

    Please chime in if you know anything about this other than rumors or web stories of questionable validity.



    SEC. 361. COMMERCIAL SALE OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION AND SMALL ARMS
    AMMUNITION COMPONENTS IN EXCESS OF
    MILITARY REQUIREMENTS, AND FIRED CARTRIDGE
    CASES.
    Section 346 of the Ike Skelton National Defense Authorization Act
    for Fiscal Year 2011 (Public Law 111-383; 124 Stat. 4191; 10 U.S.C. 2576
    note) is amended to read as follows:
    [[Page 125 STAT. 1378]]
    ``SEC. 346. COMMERCIAL SALE OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION AND SMALL
    ARMS AMMUNITION COMPONENTS IN EXCESS OF
    MILITARY REQUIREMENTS, AND FIRED CARTRIDGE
    CASES.
    ``(a) Commercial Sale of Small Arms Ammunition, Small Ammunition
    Components, and Fired Cartridge Cases.--Small arms ammunition and small
    ammunition components which are in excess of military requirements, and
    intact fired small arms cartridge cases shall be made available for
    commercial sale. Such small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition
    components, and intact fired cartridge cases shall not be demilitarized,
    destroyed, or disposed of, unless in excess of commercial demands or
    certified by the Secretary of Defense as unserviceable or unsafe. This
    provision shall not apply to ammunition, ammunition components, or fired
    cartridge cases stored or expended outside the continental United States
    (OCONUS).
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-11...-112publ81.htm

  8. #8
    It's hard to find a credible source for these issues. It's like finding sec 358 of this law, or the last 20 or so executive orders from nObama. I've looked on .gov site they are just not listed yet (kind of taking their time).

    another catalyst to this issue is the M855A1 round, designed to replace current green tips. 6 times more expensive and a lot more time intensive to make. http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/0...s-and-marines/

    Another still is DHS buying its billions of rounds.
    http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...nspiracy/?_r=0

    No components to make ammo, LC shut down to make M855A1 that no one wants or asked for, DHS buying in bulk over 5 years. seems a lot like a defacto bann, but why have prices start to come down?
    Last edited by HESH24; 07-27-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jmillerdoc View Post
    I found this law on one of the comments on the ammo deals part of this website. It was the first time I had known about this law. I think it is a great law and fully support it but it appears it is being violated routinely these days.

    I live in Lawton, OK, home of one of the largest Army artillery posts in the world. Occasionally I partner up with one of my service buddies and go shooting at the range on post. Several months ago while shooting I met a serviceman who had been involved with the posts disposal of spent brass for the past decade. He said that shortly after our current Czar Ahmed Obummer Bin Lyin came into office the post changed its process. According to him in the past they either auctioned or sold outright the spent brass to ammo remanufacturers all across the US. Now it is appearently crushed and sent to the smelter for scrap brass. I have not been able to verify this with anyone else on post who knows anything (itis a huge post and I only have a handful of Army buddies) but I didn't see any reason to call BS on this. He seems to know what he was talking about. He talked about it in great detail like someone who had been clearly involved with this dept of the post. I have met great liars before though who could BS about anything they had no knowledge about. This certainly lines up with the OP opened with above and other rumors i have heard since I met that fellow.

    Just curious if there are any other servicemen viewing this post who may be familiar with this topic. I would like to hear it from more sources. If this is truly the case I have direct access to my US Congrssman in my district and he is very responsive to his constituents. I would like to take this issue up with him. This post is in his district and if the Army is violating the law then someone needs to hold them accountable.

    Please chime in if you know anything about this other than rumors or web stories of questionable validity.



    SEC. 361. COMMERCIAL SALE OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION AND SMALL ARMS
    AMMUNITION COMPONENTS IN EXCESS OF
    MILITARY REQUIREMENTS, AND FIRED CARTRIDGE
    CASES.
    Section 346 of the Ike Skelton National Defense Authorization Act
    for Fiscal Year 2011 (Public Law 111-383; 124 Stat. 4191; 10 U.S.C. 2576
    note) is amended to read as follows:
    [[Page 125 STAT. 1378]]
    ``SEC. 346. COMMERCIAL SALE OF SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION AND SMALL
    ARMS AMMUNITION COMPONENTS IN EXCESS OF
    MILITARY REQUIREMENTS, AND FIRED CARTRIDGE
    CASES.
    ``(a) Commercial Sale of Small Arms Ammunition, Small Ammunition
    Components, and Fired Cartridge Cases.--Small arms ammunition and small
    ammunition components which are in excess of military requirements, and
    intact fired small arms cartridge cases shall be made available for
    commercial sale. Such small arms ammunition, small arms ammunition
    components, and intact fired cartridge cases shall not be demilitarized,
    destroyed, or disposed of, unless in excess of commercial demands or
    certified by the Secretary of Defense as unserviceable or unsafe. This
    provision shall not apply to ammunition, ammunition components, or fired
    cartridge cases stored or expended outside the continental United States
    (OCONUS).
    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-11...-112publ81.htm
    This is talked about in the links I provided. You're friend bringing it validates the article. It's just one of the things contributing to the low amount of ammo. I honestly think this was done on purpose as a quiet sort of gun control that they were hoping no one would notice. If you can't ban magazines or certain guns then why not just make it a pain in the ass to find ammo and when you do it becomes too expensive to shoot.

    I wouldn't be shocked if down the pipeline the government or military orders a ton more ammo and at the same time tries to pass some sort of legislature or regulations regarding the sale of ammo to civilians even going as far as having the EPA say something like "yada yada casings are causing environmental damage and now we are requiring all private ammo manufacturers to use these specific quality of materials in bullets and casings." If they can prices ammo out of the hands of citizens and at the same time keep the ammo manufacturers making the same amount of money either by government contracts or whatever; then they will have achieved their gun control without having it known or debated on publicly.

    Everyone says "oh I'll just reload my own ammo then"; what makes you think they won't go after you as well? It was talked about after the Boston Marathon bombing to have stricter requirements on who can buy gun powder or black powder. All it takes is one fucked up person doing something bad with gun powder and then gun powder will end up being heavily restricted. Then your choices will be either to pay a lot for ammo or be restricted in reloading your own. Good luck feeding those guns then. Gun control will have won.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by HESH24 View Post
    It's hard to find a credible source for these issues. It's like finding sec 358 of this law, or the last 20 or so executive orders from nObama. I've looked on .gov site they are just not listed yet (kind of taking their time).

    another catalyst to this issue is the M855A1 round, designed to replace current green tips. 6 times more expensive and a lot more time intensive to make. http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/0...s-and-marines/

    Another still is DHS buying its billions of rounds.
    http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...nspiracy/?_r=0

    No components to make ammo, LC shut down to make M855A1 that no one wants or asked for, DHS buying in bulk over 5 years. seems a lot like a defacto bann, but why have prices start to come down?

    Been talking to friends about this, and I posing the question " what if a little ammo is being trickled out to try to stop gun/ammo proliferation?". seems the consensuses is prices will return to normal nothing to see here (thumbs down to everything!). What if the people in charge saw the panic buying and were trying to mitigate it as much as it as possible? If people feel comfortable or complacent with the current market they might just sit back and wait for the next panic to buy, and it might be to late.

    Pork chop sandwich I agree, and I'm glad your in the game.

  11. #11
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    Apr 2013
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    9
    Hesh24, I think the next panic is going to be much worse than an ammo panic. It is going to be a currency crisis. I believe they same "them" you are theorizing are letting some ammo trickle in are engineering something much worse. Consider the current debt of the USA, $16 trillion. That's not really the debt, the true debt when you include all unfunded obligations of the USA as a whole is much closer to $60 trillion. The Fed continues to print money and loan it to the governement and banks for zero interest, we continue to spend this fiat currency like madmen, and nobody really talks about what this means for the near future. Currently our interest payment obligation on our debt is roughly $250 billion a year. Chump change for a GDP of 3 trillion plus a year right? That's what the media and Obummer would have you believe. The problem is that this is based on a near zero interest rate and approximately one third of the total note of our debt is due in the next year or so. That means, like with bonds, we have to sell off one third of the $16 trillion debt, put it back on the international market, and convince other countries like China to purchase it again. Unfortunately due tour declining debt rating there is no way in hell investor countries are going to buy back this debt at near zero interest rates. For the higher risk they will want higher interest rates. If we conservatively could sell our debt off at historically high interest rates then our payment on interest alone becomes more than half of the current GDP, close to two trillion a year. Impossible. I think soon, real soon, when we have these adjustments in the interest rate of our national debt, we will start falling over the edge of a fiscal crisis on the magnitude of the great depression, if not worse. Runaway inflation will occur and we will see $20 a gallon gas and $10 loaves of bread. The math of the future is undeniable. Our current debt and runaway spending is going to crash the economy sooner or later. It has become impossible to avoid and any sane economist knows this. The only question is how long will the elite powers that run the show be able to continue keep the house of cards standing. I suspect just long enough to get all the necessary police state infrastructure and laws in place to handle this worldwide crash. The evidence is everywhere that what is happening to our economy and freedoms is an engineered disaster created to usher us into a new world order. If it weren't then the truth about our financial state would not be suppressed and real solutions to fixing things would be a urgent bipartisan effort like any other past national threat. Once the house of cards falls one of the biggest threats to the restructuring and stripping of our rights will be the armed citizen. They want our guns and ammo because, I believe, we will be the final barrier to total tyranny. History shows this over and over. Create a crisis, have the people beg the governement to strip away their rights for the sake of security, disarm the citizenry, enslave and control the people. This may sound like crazy conspiracy theory stuff to the uninitiated but do a little homework if you find yourself doubting. All the evidence is there hidden in plain sight. I used to think this sort of stuff was nutty but in the past couple years I have come to believe that it is no coincidence what is happening today. Call me crazy, fine. Take precautions anyway. I hope I am completely wrong and our future is sunny and bright. It just doesn't seem right to imagine that though does it?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmillerdoc View Post
    Hesh24, I think the next panic is going to be much worse than an ammo panic. It is going to be a currency crisis. I believe they same "them" you are theorizing are letting some ammo trickle in are engineering something much worse. Consider the current debt of the USA, $16 trillion. That's not really the debt, the true debt when you include all unfunded obligations of the USA as a whole is much closer to $60 trillion. The Fed continues to print money and loan it to the governement and banks for zero interest, we continue to spend this fiat currency like madmen, and nobody really talks about what this means for the near future. Currently our interest payment obligation on our debt is roughly $250 billion a year. Chump change for a GDP of 3 trillion plus a year right? That's what the media and Obummer would have you believe. The problem is that this is based on a near zero interest rate and approximately one third of the total note of our debt is due in the next year or so. That means, like with bonds, we have to sell off one third of the $16 trillion debt, put it back on the international market, and convince other countries like China to purchase it again. Unfortunately due tour declining debt rating there is no way in hell investor countries are going to buy back this debt at near zero interest rates. For the higher risk they will want higher interest rates. If we conservatively could sell our debt off at historically high interest rates then our payment on interest alone becomes more than half of the current GDP, close to two trillion a year. Impossible. I think soon, real soon, when we have these adjustments in the interest rate of our national debt, we will start falling over the edge of a fiscal crisis on the magnitude of the great depression, if not worse. Runaway inflation will occur and we will see $20 a gallon gas and $10 loaves of bread. The math of the future is undeniable. Our current debt and runaway spending is going to crash the economy sooner or later. It has become impossible to avoid and any sane economist knows this. The only question is how long will the elite powers that run the show be able to continue keep the house of cards standing. I suspect just long enough to get all the necessary police state infrastructure and laws in place to handle this worldwide crash. The evidence is everywhere that what is happening to our economy and freedoms is an engineered disaster created to usher us into a new world order. If it weren't then the truth about our financial state would not be suppressed and real solutions to fixing things would be a urgent bipartisan effort like any other past national threat. Once the house of cards falls one of the biggest threats to the restructuring and stripping of our rights will be the armed citizen. They want our guns and ammo because, I believe, we will be the final barrier to total tyranny. History shows this over and over. Create a crisis, have the people beg the governement to strip away their rights for the sake of security, disarm the citizenry, enslave and control the people. This may sound like crazy conspiracy theory stuff to the uninitiated but do a little homework if you find yourself doubting. All the evidence is there hidden in plain sight. I used to think this sort of stuff was nutty but in the past couple years I have come to believe that it is no coincidence what is happening today. Call me crazy, fine. Take precautions anyway. I hope I am completely wrong and our future is sunny and bright. It just doesn't seem right to imagine that though does it?
    Jmillerdoc,
    You Sir hit the nail on the head! I'm not an economist but everyone knows printing fake money is gonna take it's toll. Why do you think all the Banks and Corporations are not hiring and holding onto to there money?...they're bracing for the storm. I sat next to a guy for several years listening to his ranting and raving thinking he was a Nutt job, then I started doing some fact checking and it scared the shit out of me! @gend@ 21, FEM@ camps, Milit@ry drills in small towns, DHS Check Points inside our borders where unlawful searches happen. The videos are out there and so is the info, so if you want to put your head in the sand go right ahead but you have yourself to blame. I have young kids and this is the last thing I want to come out of my mouth but in the same breathe as a father it is my responsibility to pay attention. If a storm is coming you need to seek shelter! We are not stupid and we see the games/tactics they are playing, they wish we would all be cattle. It's a damn shame we let them ruin our country for their own greed (Outsourcing I.T. remember the economy in the mid 90's, Wall-street, Housing Market and so on and so on and so on). Hell I just read an article today how Tony Blair did a deal with Libya's Momar and released the lockerbee perp because he agreed to buy a missile defense system. Explain that to the families of the 270 people killed. SICK what greedy people get away with! The real cherry is that I know someone way the fuck up there...kind of like my weatherman at the n@tional weather service and he said this will be the biggest storm in history...at least for our nation. Prepare, be safe and GOD speed!

  13. #13
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    Yeah, I am 44. Not too young and not too old. I have lived much of my life and it has so far been a really good ride. What makes all this suck the most is that I have a 2 year old daughter who will grow up in a world so alien to the one I knew. I fear by the time she is able to start forming memories of her own things will just then be hitting the fan. I have thought through this over and over. There is no easy solution. I can do my part, go to work, support my family, be a good citizen, vote, pay my debts.....and it won't matter. I can sell off most of what I have, buy a small cabin in the Bitterroot Valley on the BLM, live like a hermit and still she gets left with what? When you have a child it's not about you anymore....well it shouldn't be, and that is also part of the problem too. There is no easy solution to this coming storm. If it were just me I probably would be heading for the hills right now. Fortunately I live in the only state in the US that every district voted red last election. Currently I live in a fairly rural area on the outskirts of a town of 100k and I have made lots of friends and connections with farmers and ranchers and land owners who know how to fend for themselves. I have skills they will need. I have put back a years worth of food, stocked up on tools and supplies, and have a pretty nice arsenal. I am hoping this will be enough. I pity those who live off the government tit in the big cities. Imagine the scene when the stuff really hits the fan.when the great depression hit we didn't have a population density of unequipped, unprepared, welfare receiving "citizens" we have today. You have already seen what happens when they hear a verdict they don't agree with....think of the riots and looting when the bus drives over the cliff. They will have to enact marshal law. You saw what they did in New Orleans with the hurricane....they went around taking guns. They were just testing the waters. Things are going to get real interesting friends....

  14. #14
    I intend to keep my on hand supplies (ammo/food/medical) as high as I can afford until I feel a little more stability. However I think our community, country are on a downward slide and people only look out for themselves. kind of that give me, give me culture. I even notice a bunch of people here that have this crazy idea that the retailers selling this stuff we have a passion for should just give it to us for less than they paid for it. I think it is crazy socialist ideas like that that are going to screw us all in the end.

    Although, I am also sure that we have people at the wheel who want to speed us over that cliff as fast as they can. Why else would you through gas on the fire. ammo plants have had issues keeping up with demand for a long time now, so why shut down 1/3 LC plant to make the BS m855a1 round that no one wants. it failed in the 70s why bring it back at the worst time? then the contests. Lets have a arms contest to see what manufacturer can design the replacement for the Beretta combat pistol. the result ended up being... no one, lets just keep it after all. Then the more recent carbine challenge, who won... again, no one. We instead are keeping the M4. This stuff all happened in the background and I don't think any one noticed. we had a mass shooting spree and sick people were put up on thorns because of their atrocities they committed. I feel strongly it was all a distraction, kind of a magicians slide of hand. the "NEWS" was fixated only on those tragedies and covered nothing else.

    I always wounder what are "They" doing when the "news" is in wall to wall coverage of some BS???

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